Education in the Netherlands

[Arvy]

Hi all,

I am wondering is there a Yachtdesign course in the Netherlands, something like Westlawn?

Grtz,
Arvy

[westlawn5554X]

There should be a yacht school somewhere in Holland but Westlawn is an internet base course, although they have join with a few institution and support study at college level... if I am not mistaken... google westlawn and see their detail intro and u may even ask them on Holland...

[joz]

Westlawn is an internet base course

I wouldn't say an internet base the only internet base is the Bulletin Board which the school has or via email to contact the school.

[westlawn5554X]

yea... the manual and other material is send and initial work done manually... but there is an email option.

The course is real enough... but it is internet to help remote student that have problem with mail and that work in hard reach places... like me... :)

[yipster]

Arvy, actually nothing like westlawn but planty of hands-on, trading, management, engineering, industrial design, economy etc
you may want to check hiswa (http://www.hiswawerkenleren.nl/profielen.php?profiel_id=15), tudelft, marin and others, and there is the i-net and this forum

[Arvy]

Thanks for the replies so far.

For what I am looking for, I think westlawn is a bit too much (will cost about 15000 euro's for the 4 modules with all the software and extra books). I have a mechanical engineering background, and of course would only like to do something like a "conversion" training. Besides that, after studying the westlawn website I noticed a lot is inspired by Dave Gerr's books (not so strange considering his role at Westlawn), I would say this doesn't look very much like engineering. Please correcty me if I am wrong here.

About the eduction in holland: tudelft and inholland are only fulltime studies, I simply don't have the time (still have to make a living for my family :D ). Besides that I am only interested in Yachtdesign and construction, tudelft and inholland also focus on all kind of other vessels including ro-ro's and oiltankers etc.

I just checked the hiswa site, they claim to have a catalog for the trainings but the link is missing (probably because it is 2008 now). Will get in touch with them by email or phone.

Basically I am just looking for some education to help me understand the class society rules, and a bit more indepth understanding in hydrodynamics and hydrostatics. I asked a few questions on this forum already, and most answers in the past have been answered very well, but with the questions I have now I get no replies at all.

[yipster]

geez, with the best software it adds up and did not know that was in the courses, but thats a lot of money yes
i was under the impression it was something like $2000.- (http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=13389&highlight=westlawn) witch i am still short off
anyway, i too wondered what sort of yachtdesign / naval architect schools closer than southhampton are are around here
some calls may get you wiser and like to hear what you found out

[Aquaplanning]

This training is in Dutch:
http://www.inholland.nl/Content/News/Nieuws/Nummer+6+april+2007/Scheepsbouwkunde+nu+ook+in+Leeuwarden.htm?SourceGuid=%7B42E85419-5851-4773-884D-855D02DCF08F%7D

They also offer part time lessons.

Hope this helps

[dgerr]

There seems to be some confusion on the cost of Westlawn in this thread. For 2008, Yacht Design Lite (YDL) is 1900 Euros—as is any single module. (YDL is a great way to become familiar with the course and see if you’d like to continue with the full four-module program. There’s no repetition or added cost in doing so.) This is the least expensive Westlawn has been in Europe for over a decade. The full four-module Yacht & Boat Design Program totals 7600 Euros over four years. This is half Arvy’s figure. Not sure how he arrived at it. There are low-interest payment plans as well, with monthly payments as low as 109 Euros. (Exact amounts will vary with the exchange rate.)

At the student pricing available once you enroll, the minimal suite of CAD software needed is about 475 Euros, with a generous complement of CAD software about 950 Euros. There’s no need to purchase this all at once. You can and should purchase the software in increments, building up as you learn each application. So, this is in manageable purchases of around 200 Euros spread out over some time.

As for engineering, all I can tell you is that the full Yacht & Boat Design Program is very demanding. Graduate naval architects and engineers, who have taken Westlawn, have said it was more difficult than their engineering degree. Or, to quote Westlawn alumnus Tom Fexas, who had a marine engineering degree from SUNY Maritime before he took Westlawn:

“Westlawn was harder than my four-year engineering degree.”
www.tomfexas.com

This is one thing we tell everyone who considers enrolling in Westlawn. It’s a big commitment in time and hard work. If you don’t have the discipline to make yourself study month after month, the program isn’t for you.

Dave Gerr
Director
Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology
www.westlawn.edu

[Arvy]

Hello Dave,

Thanks for you reply.

This is how I got to the amount of money I got to (I roughly added it up in my head): Pricing is from your catalog.

Tuition fees:
Module 1: 2800
Module 2: 2600 (without the registration fees)
Module 3: 2600
Module 4: 2600

Total: 10600

Books:
Module 1: 55
Module 2: 116
Module 3: 58

Total: 229 (when ordered in the US, in the Netherlands books are more expensive) for example: Elements of Boatstrength in the USA: 25$ to 30euro's at current exchange rate about 45$ that is almost 2 two as much.

Software:
Autocad : 365
Prosurf : 295
Rhino : 145

Total: 805

Manual drafting equipment: 400$

This all adds up to an amount of: 12034$ (approximate)

At this moment the exchange rate is in our favour, and would lead to a price of 8300 euro's, but of course it is uncertain what will happen over the next 4 years?

Remember, I just added the figures up in my head without actually calculating them on my other post (and didn't apply exchange rates either).

As you did reply to the thread (which I find very good of you :D ) I have some more questions (they might have been answered in the catalog, not sure).

Can you explain me how it would work in case I would enroll, living in Holland, there is hardly anyway to have contact with any teachers. So everything has to go through internet.

There seems to be a lot of manual work to be handed in? As I am not really interested in drafting manually and I think for nowadays manual work is not used that much anymore. This is based on my mechanical engineering education, I have done a lot of manual drafting during my education, and when I started working, I have never done any manual drafting again. I am unsure how this is in Yachtdesign, but I can imagine it won't be very different.

How does westlawn deal with the non-native languages (for written papers, the quality will always be less than for a native english speaking person).

When following the YDL course, does one have to follow less lessons from the other modules, or does one still have to follow all other modules to complete the full YD course?

And the last one:

Is westlawn accredited in the netherlands?

Thanks for your replies so far.

Grtz,
Arvy

[dgerr]

Arvy,

You seem to be conflating Euros and U.S. dollars. Your earlier post gave a huge figure for Westlawn that was in Euros, which wasn’t correct. This oversight is understandable because U.S. dollars and Euros were close to parity for a long time, but the Euro is about equal to 2 U.S. dollars and the trend—if anything—is that the Euro is growing stronger. The result is that Westlawn is basically half price paying in U.S. dollars using Euros—yes about 1900 Euros for a module and 7600 for the full 4-year program. It’s a great bargain for students in Europe.

Westlawn like any proper school, college, or university is accredited in its home country—the U.S. This is no different than MIT, SUNY Maritime, or Delft, in the Netherlands. Forty percent of Westlawn students are outside the U.S. and always have been over the 78-year history of the school.

See also the link at:

http://www.westlawn.edu/news/index.asp?displayfile=RINAweb.htm

regarding Wesltawn and the Royal Institution of Naval Architects.

Yes, you must do the first year using manual drafting. We’ve found this is necessary in order to progress properly. Starting with year 2 you can move entirely to CAD. At the end of year 3, you must do all CAD. Refer to my post relating to this subject, from a while back, at:

http://www.boatdesign.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14937

Scroll down a bit to see my comments in this thread.

There is a standard process for transferring from YDL into Module 2, with no repetition of any course material, no added cost, and no extra study time.

All course material is only in English and all lessons must be submitted in English.

Westlawn offers several different courses (including continuing education courses) and the programs we offer are large and complex. There’s really too much information to deal with properly in posts to a forum. Review the information on the very extensive Westlawn website and, if you have specific questions, I urge you to give us a call. We’d be very happy to chat with you.

Dave Gerr
Director
Westlawn Institute of Marine Technology
www.westlawn.edu

[yipster]

your absolutely right in the basic drawing skills and more and i did not know about the CAD
euro that high i should travel but i'm afraid i'm to old and short changed even for YDL
that module 2 (http://www.westlawn.edu/course_info/overview.asp) sure looks interesting tho, any chance to show a peak inside?
and why dont members get a buck off on a cap :P
http://store.abycinc.org/graphics/00000001/cap-big.jpg
btw updated that ladybird sailplan, hope it gives a smile http://www.boatdesign.net/gallery/data/500/ps.gif

[Mortier]

This training is in Dutch:
http://www.inholland.nl/Content/News/Nieuws/Nummer+6+april+2007/Scheepsbouwkunde+nu+ook+in+Leeuwarden.htm?SourceGuid=%7B42E85419-5851-4773-884D-855D02DCF08F%7D

They also offer part time lessons.

Hope this helps

I do the course in Leeuwarden now which tries to aim for Yacht Design. But it's still like the course in Naval Engineering course Delft. In a few years they can start changing the course and aim on the Yacht industry.

But they already try to make it more like a Yacht Design Course with projects and trips to Yacht shipyards.

[joz]

This all adds up to an amount of: 12034$ (approximate)

At this moment the exchange rate is in our favour, and would lead to a price of 8300 euro's, but of course it is uncertain what will happen over the next 4 years?

Arvy

The above Quote is cheap for a long distance course considering that here in Australia to do a Uni Degree course in Naval Architecture will cost about $80,000 + and then add living expenses, food, enterainment etc etc etc for a 4 year period. I think $12,034 USD is a lot cheaper don't you think.